Category: the Rant Board
Due to the recent surplus of people being overly helpful, assuming I'm a complete imbecile, and/or telling me how courageous I am for being blind in this day and age... I have a few things to say:
1) I'm blind. I am not deaf, not unable to climb up or down stairs, not incapable of finding my own way. I can hear you ask people around me how much I see, walk faster on stairs than most sighted people (I CAN find the railing!), and am fully capable of finding doors and other obstacles (that's what the cane's for).
2) I'm actually quite intelligent. I took (insert geek classes here) at school and received higher marks than 85% of my sighted peers.
3) I am perfectly capable of traveling on my own. Don't tell me how difficult it is (if I didn't do everything people thought was difficult, I wouldn't get out of bed in the morning). Ask if you can help, by all means, but do not grab any part of my person or my cane/guide dog unless I am in danger of running into traffic or falling off a platform. If I am grabbed, I am within my rights to be as impolite as you are.
4) Don't pity me or otherwise tell me how brave I am. My blindness is a fact of life, like your blond hair or dysfunctional family; I have no control over it. I don't want or need your pity; in fact, it's offensive. How would you like it if I apologized for you're having size 12feet, or told you that you were brave for crossing the street to go to work (oh, yeah, I have a job, too... should I be admired for this, too?)
Fair play to you and I agree with every word..
nice!!!
I agree!
So, can I type this up and hand it out to everyone around here? That's exactly how I feel. Precisely what I've wanted to shout at others countless times.
Meghan
Everyone virtually sign their name. I agree!!!
Jessica!
Yeah, no problem. Print it out. Just give credit. I'm thinking of writing one of blindisms that piss me off, too, but that wouldn't be as well-received here
Post the blindisms one. WHo cares? Freedom of speech here. i for one wanna read it. And I wholeheartedly agree with this and may jsut post it in my LJ. I'll definitely credit you though. :D
Caitlin
Although I understand what you are saying, I think that instead of being all pissy about it, why don't you teach the people around you by being a bit more polite about it. I mean, show them and explain to them exactly how capable you really are. Lots of people mean well but they just don't get it sometimes. How would you feel if you were only trying to help and the person blew up in your face? I'm sure you would never want to help, much less be near that person again. Sometimes, you just have to smile and go on your way. There are so many blind people out there who are so much into showing their independence that they seem cold and aloof towards other people. That is certainly not what I wish to portray about myself.
*sexy*
I personally believe that some people are missing the point here. What I think was done is simply an expression of how most of us feel sometimes at the way the sighted population maybe patronises us by offering much more than we really need. It appears that some think, that CM is suggesting that she would be rude to people who do the things she's mentioned. I don't believe this is the case, she's merely telling a group of mostly like minded blind people how it makes her feel. If we can't say things like this amongst ourselves, then there really is something wrong.
Like I was telling Kev, I think that it is important to be polite when dealing with overly helpful people. I understand that it was probably good to vent and it's true, sighted people are ignorant in dealing with blind people, but I guess I just wanted my view on this understood. Sorry for any offense caused.
*sexy*
Where the hell do you all live? I never have randum people come up and grab onto me trying to help, and if I tell someone I don't need help I do it in a polite but firm way, and it's the end of the conversation. But then again I'm probably a lot more independent then most of you on this sight, and also don't let my self get stepped on.
Yay CM *applaudes* I totally can relate.
hi guys,
You're right. If people ask iof I need assistance, I'll answer politely, "yes, please", or "No, Thank you". As I said, the minute someone touches my body and/or my cane, I don't want to be polite. And you guys are right; I just needed to vent.
Guys and gals, this actually *is* the Rant Board, so CM is perfectly within her rights to rant, and that's all it was. Yes, I admit that sometimes in my own frustration with dealing with the ignorant, I'd love to print such a thing out and pass it out. Luckily I haven't had the need to feel so frustrated since my move to Seattle. Problem is, the idea will fail past the idea stage. I fear if most sighted folk saw such a thing they would get mightily defensive and say they meant well and wanted to be helpful. Here's how I see it. Most of your random sighted folk go through life not expecting to experience too much of a variety of people outside of whatever group they identify with. People want to stick together with other people they are familiar with, so when they encounter blind people or disabled people or people from other cultures, they're not prepared as to how to act, so they go on what little info they get from TV or just take a wild guess. In the case of blind folks, they might be going on how they think they would be if they were blind, else they might have seen one of the retellings of Helen Keller's storry, so that's what they have. So much as we want to be rude to these folks and give them a good offending or two, I guess you have to just be polite, hopefully without coming off as being too passive. If they persist, I guess you may have to just let them do their thing if they're going to be stubborn and hope it's over quickly. The stubborn ones are probably never going to get it because they've convinced themselves they're doing the right thing for the right reasons. That's about all I can say on that one.
Crazy musician I agree totally. And I also hate it if people ask others a question about me when I'm around. It's always so tempting to say "Excuse me, you can ask me, I have a mouth to speak and two ears - and they're working".
Agreed, good speech ines. sometimes though, people are just fascinated, and you have to tell them that you are fine, or maybe they are fascinated with your technology, in that case, a little pep talk on how the basics of it work might not be so bad.
How much do you blind people here know about deaf or hard of hearing people or people in wheelchairs or people with asthma? Not much I assume if not nothing at all! This means that judging sighted people because of their ingorance on blindness or blind people makes you just as bad for stereotyping them and calling them stupid! Star
Yeah. True. But then Im glad if the person who is with me and who got asked by the others, says "just ask her herself, she can answer" or something like this. Before I get impolite.
I remember 1 incident where my partner was asked "will he be alright eating tagliatele on his own, or would he like some help" feck! as luck would have it, I had my violin so after eating I just whipped out said instrument and gave her a recital..hmm Wuthering Heights if I remember rightly.. and I have been grabbed it began at the age of 13 by an old fella, who was an avid participant of the grab a blindie club... I keep hoping for Kate Blanchett or Joanna Lumley..smile.
Star, what you say isn't new. We're just doing what people do. Living by double standards and being inconsistent. Being blind doesn't make you a better person. Heck, I don't claim I'm above human nature. OK, people are trying, but sometimes you do stuff without thinking about it or because you feel it's necessary. No it isn't admirable, but it happens.
Well, I think both groups of people are largely right. I fall in the polite category of just grinning and bearing it. It has not happened often that someone has grabbed me and hardly ever before asking me first what or where I wanted to go. And even when someone doesn't even talk to me directly (that still happens believe it or not even when I go out to lunch obviously wearing a business/banking outfit and sit with a bunch of programmers discussing financial pricing models) I just put up with it. My buddy at work was surprised the other day that I didn't say something when an elderly lady treated me like a 12 year old and in retrospect I probably should have politely pointed out this perhaps wasn't the best way to talk to a blind person, but I just did not want to be bothered. I know a few blind people and we've had a few mutual sighted friends and with one girl in particular our mutual friend would complain to me that she was just so rude when offered any sort of help it put my friend off wanting to help her and I think that does not reinforce the confident and interesting blind person stereotype at all.
You really got to find the middle ground here, know when it's not worth it to say anything but when it'd be better to politely explain that we really are human too and most of us even understand a word or two when spoken slowly and distinctly, even by strangers. Of course we have to ut it nicely though, but I think we probably fall into the same trap when dealing with others we don't know.
cheers
-B
problem I have is how to go about telling them politely that i'm not as b put it a 12 year old. guess you jsut engage them in conversation and prove our intelligents that way. that seems to work. and when it doesn't well no biggy. you'll never see them again anyway. While I agree it is frustrating to no end. and I love your rant cm, it made me smile and feel not so isolated hehe. I also fall into the just putting up with it category they have the best of intentions. and round here preiple are generally pretty good anyway.
Yeah that's difficult, I agree.
It's really a tough situation to judge sometimes and I guess you either go with your gut feelings or else you kind of go with whatever your nature is. Like others have said, you have to try and walk that middle line. On the one side you don't want to come off as a rude and beligerent person who overreacts, but you also don't want to seem so passive that people think they can say or do anything to you and you'll just be grateful they paid you any mind at all. In the end I guess it's about picking your battles and determining how much time you have to bother and whether you think the other person is interested in hearing new ideas or not. Much as we want to we will not educate everybody.
I agree, Labyrinth.
Guys, just for a headsup... I wrote this post to rant. I wouldn't actually tell a sighted person any of this. I'd think it... the fact that several people are going on with "well, you need to go with your gut..." of course! I just wrote this rant to get some things off my chest... things I would never, could never, actually say to a sighted person. It's a rant board! You don't tell someone who'sr anting about how bitchy her mom is to "keep a balanced point of view", do you? of course not! It's a rant! It's a way to express oneself without shooting oneself in the foot, which is evidently what I've done here....
CM, you Rule. You may have just expressed what many blind people have said. And yes, I'd be very interested in the blindisms one, see how many of those I'm guilty of. LOL.
It's true people,if you cant vent here where can you vent? Things that people type here arent always the things they would say in public,or to a persons face. But I'm sure every one of us has little things that can become irksome,that build up everyday and have to come out somewhere,so isnt a rant on a forum the best place for that,espeically amongst those that face the same things?
*applaudes the master* good point.
If you guys want a list of the blindisms one, I'll send it privately, as not to piss of some people. Maybe I should write a disclaimer? WILL NOT SAY THIS TO A BLIND PERSON'S FACE (or otherwise)
I have no time for people who criticise sighted people for been too helpful. They just expect them to know everything about blind people. Not all sighted people are experts on the so-called Blind Community which all you idiots are part of because you don't fit into any other community, get over it! If you got lost and you didn't know where you were, you'd want the sighted people to help you then wouldn't you? Well I don't think they should. What harm is a person doing by been amazed about a blind persons ability? What harm is a person doing by assuming a person needs more help than they actually do? They're doing no harm at all. It's easy to say you don't need any help if they offer it to you and you don't want it. It's easy to be polite, but you members of this shitty blind community which I absolutely hate by the way, just can't realise that and instead, you'd rather be inconsiderate bastards! Well down with the blind community, when it needs help, I hope the sighted people tell the community of which I as a blind person never wish to be part, to go and fuck itself! It's entirely comprised of ignorent imbisiles!
**I have no time for people who criticise sighted people for been too helpful.**
I'm assuming you meant BEING,and why not? common sense should tell people when they are actually being helpful and when they are just being annoying.
**They just expect them to know everything about blind people. Not all sighted people are experts on the so-called Blind Community**
Where do you get this notion from,Professor? The post youre respnding to was a rant about pet peeves,why are you having so much trouble treating it as such?
**which all you idiots are part of because you don't fit into any other community, get over it!**
They fit into my community just fine,do you have trouble making friends? its no wonder with a personality like the one youre displaying here. You dont know the first thing about the girl that put up the post,how dare you label her in the first place?
**If you got lost and you didn't know where you were, you'd want the sighted people to help you then wouldn't you?**
See,thats the common sense thing you have trouble with,in this case someone is clearly lost,not for instance sitting on a park bench showing no signs of needing help.
**Well I don't think they should. What harm is a person doing by been amazed about a blind persons ability?**
You dont think they should? Let me guess,you ate a lot of paint chips growing up,didnt you? Once again I can only assume you meant BEING. And yes there is a certain harm in dropping your jaw at someone doing everyday things,why should people OHHH and AHHH at a person taking the bus? Do you want people doing that for you?
**What harm is a person doing by assuming a person needs more help than they actually do? They're doing no harm at all. It's easy to say you don't need any help if they offer it to you and you don't want it.**
And again,try using common sense. Besides this was a RANT POST,dumb ass!
**It's easy to be polite, but you members of this shitty blind community which I absolutely hate by the way, just can't realise that and instead, you'd rather be inconsiderate bastards! Well down with the blind community, when it needs help, I hope the sighted people tell the community of which I as a blind person never wish to be part, to go and fuck itself! It's entirely comprised of ignorent imbisiles!**
Do you seriously not pick up on social ques at all? Where do you get the retarded notion anyone is rude to the sighted? rant post....hello? As for the rest of the drivel there,you clearly have serious emotional issues. Do us all a favour.Seek help.
CM, please post the blindisms topic you offered. The boards have been generally uninteresting recently. this created some conversation even if people did get a bit off track. Post, and sit back and watch the fun.
Yeah, I'd also be interested in seeing it, CM. The fact is that most people have a habit for one reason or another or just picked one up somewhere. So at least in my opinion, you shouldn't worry too much on it offending. I know I have at least one "blindism" myself. But yeah, Your thing shouldn't be too offensive to post here. *smiles*
Leilani
**” common sense should tell people when they are actually being helpful and when they are just being annoying.”
Define “helpful” and “common sense.” Common sense--it’s not that common anymore. Take what you get.**
common sense
n.
Sound judgment not based on specialized knowledge; native good judgment.
help·ful
adj.
Providing assistance; useful.
**” Where do you get this notion from,Professor?”
The original poster wrote:
” Not all sighted people are experts on the so-called Blind Community”**
I was responding to one of the posters insults:
"They just expect them to know everything about blind people."
**The post stands for itself. Most sighted people have no clue how to react to a blind person (or any disabled person, for that matter.) If you don’t like this, an can’t except it, find help; If you get someone overly helpful, deal with it and enjoy it; If not, they’re a jackass, and not worth your time.**
Indeed,the post does stand for itself,and there was no need for this person to come along and call people idiots.
**”you don’t know the first thing about the girl that put up the post,how dare you label her in the first place?”
It was hardly a label; just a rant against a rant.
As you already stated, this is the “rant” board, right? It’s not just “your” rant.**
Uhm,I'm PRETTY sure "all you idiots" and "shitty blind community" would count as labels....
**How many times in your recent past has someone actually came up to you on a park bench and asked If you need help?**
It was simply used as an example,I can see just fine so it didnt happen to me,but I know someone thats been repeatedly asked while sitting in an LRT.
**Furthermore, how many times have blind people often “wanted” and “desired” help from the “ignorant” sighted, only to not receive it? It happens far too often. Maybe the reason when you actually need help but can’t get it is because of stuff like this. I don’t know, I’m just pre-assuming here.**
Stuff like what? an online vent?
**Unfortunately, most of your “responses” were just half-hearted insults that, although were comprised of beautiful words, did not contribute any real valid argument to the topic at hand. Perhaps we may continue when you settle down.**
Of course they were,after all thats what they were in response to.
Hmmmm, where to begin...*tries to remember she's a community leader and must be polite*
Ok, first of all, Brice, Wangel's rant was completely twisting CM's comment. A rant yes, but perhaps deserving a seperate topic since it had nothing to do with what CM was saying and as being posted as a reply, it is assumed the rant was against the original post. And if it was, then Wangel you need to read more carefully, because you completely missed the point/purpose of the topic.
Secondly,
***
Furthermore, how many times have blind people often “wanted” and “desired” help from the “ignorant” sighted, only to not receive it? It happens far too
often. Maybe the reason when you actually need help but can’t get it is because of stuff like this. I don’t know, I’m just pre-assuming here.
***
CM clearly stated that she'd never say anything in her post literally to a sighted person. She's simply venting, so what's the harm in expressing her frustrations to ppl she feels might understand her feelings?
Thirdly, Wangel, you are jumping to conclusions and honestly seem to be harboring much anger. Perhaps you should heed the bacon master's advice? Just a friendly suggestion
Lastly I agree with Kev and Tinkerbell, I'd love to see the blindisms topic CM :)
*smiles* More to say, but I'm lazy so Good day all
Oh shit! I haven't checked this in a long time! WTF did I start? I'm sorry CM. hehehe But yeah, by all means, post the blindism thing!!! If people get offended, it will be just as much fun reading it like it has been reading this!! Huggs girly! So come on, post it!!! heheheheh
*sexy*
OK, Bryce.
Since my very first post on this topic apparently came off as me sounding slightly arrogant at some points, I won't tell you to stuff it; instead I'll rebutt your points.
1) The grades thing. Though my marks were high in school, I don't insult people who haven't been given as much intelligence as I was blessed with. the point I was trying to make was that blind people aren't stupid; we don't need to be treated like two-year-olds. Why I'm justifying this point, howver, is beyond me....
2) The grabbing me issue. Ok, bryce. Answer me this. You're walking along the street, happy as a clam, knowing exactly where you're going, what you're doing, and some random person grabs your arm and starts guiding you somewhere (you don't know where) without inquiring if you need assistance... If you c an tell me what you'd do in that situation, I might concede that the point coudl ahve been harsh. Conversely, though, as a woman, there are certain other fear factors in play here.
3) Don't pity me! I was on the bus one day when I woman looked me square in the face and said, "oh, dear, you have a vision problem... I feel so sorry for you." While her motive might have been compassion, it came off as the most patronizing thing I've ever heard. Conversely, people assume I'm in school, which is fine, but when I tellt hem I am working, they're like "Well, I'm sooo proud of you!"
Why I bothered with this post, I don't know... I just like my post ratings to go up, I guess...
hi Bryce... you're still missing my point entirely. OK. I'll concede the 85% deal could have been taken as my tooting my horn, but in keeping with the overall tone of the post, I couldn't just say "I scored better than many of my sighted counterparts". How many? Did you take special classes (oh, btw, people re surprised I went to public schools and DID take geeky classes, so why I'm asking your forgiveness for my cynicism, I'll never know).
If I conduct myself properly? Bryce! I said that there are times I'm just walking down the street and someone out of the blue grabs my arm and makes grosse assumptions that I don't know where I'm going. There is no possible way that I bring that on myself. Don't say it, or even let the idea enter your head. As a woman in this day and age, I get grabbed, I'm not quiet about it, and why should I be? If I were sighted would you tell me to lump it?
And having fun with patronizing comments... I try to, but get a clue, Bryce! It's a RANT! I didn't want advice on how to deal with these people... I wanted to rant! That's all. While I know your advice is well-intentioned, like you seem to believe sighties grabbing my body for no reason is well-intentioned, I'll have to respectfully decline your offer of assistance.
Hey, CM,
I totally agree with every damn thing that has been said. I feel that way here at college a lot. and here's another thing to point out. Have any of you ever noticed that conveniently when someone finds out you're blind, they have a distant family member that is blind or losing vision? lol anyway, preach it, sister. I agree with it whole heartedly. You can only be polite so much before you have to put that foot down and let people know that you are blind and not retarded. and that's all I have to say about that. Jimmy
It's so simple people, it really is. When a sighted person assumes you need help when you don't, all you need to do is politely explain that you don't need their assistance and thank them for been kind enough for offering it anyway. This advice can be applied to any situation. If a person does have difficulty applying this advice, it's obviously because they've got an attitude problem. Explain this to me. How come in 19 years of living and spending the vast majority of my life around sighted people, how come I've never had any difficulties with them? I, and my visually impaired friends from West Yorkshire (England), can all say, that the only people who piss us off are the blind people we hear complaining about the sighted people.
Oh, my God! I should move to West Yorkshire then... if all the sighted people are great!
if I were some random teenagers griping about her parents' grounding her for the twenty-sixth time, would you be telling me that in West Yorkshire you and your blind friends NEVER have parental problems?
In all seriousness, though, I think it's great if people know how to treat you, and you have never had anyone who won't take your "no, I dont need assistance, but thanks for the offer" at face-value. As I believe I have said in every response to this post of mine: IT'S A RANT! I never once wrote: "I'm walking down the street this afternoon, and decided to proclaim this from the rooftops", or put this up on giant billboards". Maybe next time, I won't post rants on this board since they're taken SO seriously.
But hey... I'll ust move to West Yorkshire! Then I will NEVER need to vent about sighties, since we blindies are apparently the problem.
Well, as I see it, CM was actually just ranting and/or venting, whichever word you choose. I think ripping apart this topic and putting a different spin on it only serves to diminish the original point. It was just something she wanted to get off her chest and I fully agree with everything she said. and I, too, would also like to see the blindisms post. It gets people thinking. Using your brains is helpful every once in a while. So stop taking everything she said so damn seriously. Pleeeeeeease!
cm, your totaly justified in what you say and I don'tthink you were off track at all. good on ya girl for obviously voicing the thoughts that I know we al lhave, but are apparently to frightened to voice. Never did it cross my mind that you were a ungreatfull little blinky flapper who is bitter towards the world. quite the oppersite. I found your post very amusing, and so accurate of how I myself feel some of the time, although like you I would never voice it to other blindies, or my close friends who understand the accasional frustrations we face. it's not our dissability that holds us back it's the general public's perception of it. We don't put restrictions on ourselves, other people do. I was talking to a friend the other day about this very thing, and we were laughing at how amusing it would be to sit next to some poor unsuspecting sited person aometime at the bus stop and start commenting on how great it is that they can get out of bed in the morning and get themselves to the bus stop. not to mention how well dressed they are, do they do that themselves? really *inserts sarcastic shocked voice here* heehheeh, seriously guys lighten up a bit. this isn't a rant at the sited community at large for beeint stupid or anything like that. we know they're not, and as inapropriate some of the help we are given might be sometimes. people do it out of the goodness of their hearts, I know ythat, cm knows that, we all know that, and we apreciate it more than we realise. it's just that sometimes it all gets a bit much to be a constant polite well mannered ambasitor for the blind, and infact the dissabled community at large. and last time I checked, a on line community like this is jsut the place wehre if anywhere we can vent our frustrations, and not be rediculed for it. you know it sucks beeing a blink, so jsut admit it hehe. just like it sucks beeing a girl from time to time, or a guy, or a teenager, or a single person who hasn't had a lay in 12 months, or what ever your frustration is at the time. just cause your all thoughs things, does it mean that everyone is going to jump on you when you have a rant about it? no. but as soon as someone expresses a little frustration at something that obviously only happens because they are blind or Vi, everyone jumps on them. SO cm, post away, or if nothing else, hehe pqn me and I'll rant about life with ya girl hehehehe.
ah, a correction to my last post. I would never admit it to anyone accept other blindies, or my close friends... my bad.
I never said that all sighted people in West Yorkshire or everywhere else I've been are perfect when it comes to there treatment of blind people, but what I was saying is, that because of the understanding we blind people in West Yorkshire have of the sighted people around us, we know how to handle the situations which sometimes occur. That, is the exact reason why we never have any problems with how we're treated by sighted people. It's all to do with our handling of the situations whic h sometimes occur.
so if you want how to deal with eyes lessons to go york, they've got it down pat hehe this I have to see. pretty ritch calls you make there wangel
Perhaps you all should swallow some of Wangel's words; they might do you a bit of good.
Wangel... I'm going to quote you, here.
"How come in 19 years of living and spending the vast
majority of my life around sighted people, how come I've never had any difficulties with them?"
You just contradicted yourself. I have a great understanding of sighted people and their desire to help, though they don't always help in the most constructive ways. Not two days ago I asked someone three times to give me directions rather than guiding me somewhere... they didn't get it.
As Puggle pointed out, I could rant about the pathetic justice system in this country or about my parents grounding me for the thirty-fourth time, but the minute I decide "Hey, people are gonna understand where I'm coming from if I post about the reality of how I feel sometimes as a blind/VI person..." then I get jumped on? Explain THAT to me? As an afore-mentioned victim of injustice, or the afore-mentioned teenager, would you tell me that I don't have an "understanding" of how the court system works? My parents? What?
Remind me not to post about the length of time I was looking for a job... because I therefore don't have an understanding of how the sighties view me as a blindie.
Whatever.
Ah, here I am to shed some light on this situation. First, this declaration of independence is lifted directly from the NFB's website; I've used it in speeches against them. I have also come in contact with tons of belligerent people who follow this creed, and I can't say any of them could be described as happy or well-adjusted. Those who have the most friends are often the most polite.
Cousin Cap, do remember that CM is merely venting, not advocating a course of action in real life. Like I said up the thread, some of the more clueless ones make you want to go there and verbally give them a thrashing, but just because you feel like doing it by no means means that you should, and most blind folks, including CM would not do that. What is up with you guys? You can't distinguish a rant from real life or something? I don't believe in a lot of the NFB policies either according to my understanding of them, but I also don't believe in being either an asshole or a doormatt, even though I would think a doormatt is exactly waht some helpful folks want us to be. Just be passive and let them get you more lost than you were because they meant well. Yeah right! One can be polite and firm at the same time I hope. Yeah, it might bruise a well-meaning ego or two, but we will not go through life not getting hurt or hurting others unintentionally.
I think that people take words literally at times, rant or no rant; what someone said is still worth debating, whether they were "Ranting," or otherwise. It's still warranted, in my opinion.
Thank you, Gypsy! As I said to someone earlier, isn't the purpose of a rant to distill different viewpoints from the listeners? I happen to think that such demands as this declaration proposes reveal an excessive propensity for arrogance, defensiveness, and even hubris. One should be grateful, humble, even, at the thought of how so many people choose to be kind, rather than ignoring and ridiculing the stupid, lost, bewildered blind beggar. It is not so long ago that blind people were used, carelessly, as entertainment at street fairs for people to mock and debase. Be thankful, then, that so many are charitable, helpful, and understanding of the shortcomings of our condition. Also, those who have chips on their shoulders and axes to grind are never disposed to be reasonable, so stubbornly held is their belief that they are always right, and somehow higher than the rest of man.
In what situations involving sighted people are you not to be grateful and humble? Consider that since CM is a female, some people would want to grab her and perhaps even tell her they want to help when in fact their intent is to take advantage of her, rape or rob or murder her or any blind female. I hope that isn't the time one should be grateful and humble is it?
You're overthinking this. In normal circumstances, I.E. not in the inner city, this is usually a moot point. I'm not going to argue here.
On second thought, there is an immense difference between someone grabbing a woman's arm to lead her across the street, and wantonly putting their hands on a girl's rear.
I agree with the above post; it all depends on the situation. You're taking things to literally here, Laborenth.
hmm, why would someone wanting to rob rape or murder a young woman specifically touch her ass? they'd likely grab at any point on the body to get her to a place where they could do whatever they desire. This is off the topic, but I felt still worth making the point. Also Cousin cap, you seem to have taken this to a whole new level, after we established it's a rant, you've come back and totally missed the point once more. Maybe this is actually for you one of those AFB ACB rants, not just a rant by someone who feels irritated at general life once in a while.
You may be right. The code is so similar to that espoused by the NFB that I couldn't help letting my animosity towards them slip into my posts here.
CousinCap, you're the one taking this too seriously. As a Canadian, I don't know what the letters AFB stand for, but less the posision they have on issues of independence. I was just ranting about life in general, as we all do. As Blackbird and Labyrinth are pointing out to you, as a woman there is a whole other set of issues regarding being grabbed, by the arm mind you, even whe NOT in the inner city. I live in a rather large city, and on public transportation I've learned my way around most Light Rapid Transit stations fairly well. These are also the places where I am primarily grabbed (though it has happened elsewhere). LRT stations, for example, are perfect places to assume a friendly posture, and there are plenty of places to hide and do X, Y, or Z that would be, if not unwanted, then definitely harmful.
I was going to issue you a challenge, CousinCap, but then, since I do read the rant board... you telle veryone their rants are trivial...
CM, AFB stands for the American Foundation For The Blind.
can i print that on every street in cross and around the kneck of every person i pass on the streets or in school.
Could do, but then CousinCap and others would think that you're arrogant :P
Does it matter what he thinks in the first place? Why give in? :p
There's always that.. but hey, what can I say? Just wanting cookies_and_cream to understand that some people will think she's an arrogant bitch is she does :P
Right, so in the name of not letting this topic die, I have questions, and of course, it's to Cousin Cap or any who agree with his views. So while we are being all humble and grateful for getting help we never asked for in the first place, and assuming people only wish to be nice, what kinds of behavior are we supposed to put up with, especially when a sighted person would not tollerate such behavior at all if it came from another sighted person. I will say again before anyone jumps to conclusions that I do not believe being rude is OK, except perhaps in extreme situations, but I do believe in being assertive. If we just act like we're thankful that somebody paid us any mind at all merely because they have the option not to, what impression does it give people? Are we just being polite, or are we telling people they can pretty much do or say anything, no matter how outrageous, and as long as they mean well, we'll think it totally acceptable behavior. Is merely being assertive a sign of arrogance?
*applauds Labyrinth* Too bad others didn't respond and the topic kinda died. Oh, well, I can respond.
I will respectfully accept or decline an offer of assistance, but as soon as someone touches my body, I tell them firmly to let go. I'm in my rights to do that.
Another topic - when kids ask their parents questions about your not being able to see, and parents answer the questions, what drives you nuts about it, if anything? What explanations that parents give their kids do you find helpful?
Well, on the occasions I remember overhearing parents, their explanations are simple and to-the-point and weren't anything outrageous or weird. I think at least they have the concepts of the guide dog or cane down.
I have heard kids ask their parents if I'm blind, and they just replied that I am, or the kid has asked what I have, "that," (Referring to my cane), for, and they say it's to help me get around. I've never had anything wierd or outlandish said.
I almost cried yesterday while I was on my way to work. This little kid looks at me, indicates my cane and goes "what's that?" and I explain that my eyes don't work like his do, and my cane is to make sure that I don't fall down the stairs or run into anything. the woman with him (his mother?) turns to me and say, "Don't worry about it; he's only three."
Ash: that sucks. The kids Mum is pretty ignorant if she's making excuses for her son, but then again, she'd probably never met someone who was blind and wasn't expecting her kid to act like that, so you've gotta give her some slack.
True... but it just made me sad.. like, "Yu don't have to explain anything to him because he's just a kid". Psh, whatever.
This is wierd but true!
Wow....this topic has been here awhile, but well said to the original poster.
I'm so using this when something of the sort happens. maybe I should cary around a hard copy as well just for the hell of it. this is so true.
that's the best thing I've read all day, cm.
believe it or not, SwissGriff, that was posted nearly five years ago... I still stand beside every word I wrote... I wonder if West Yorkshire is still so understandign about the blind community... *grins*
actually, I'm going to take this opportunity to congratulate the country I'm moving to for being totally awesome about being blind.
in all my time there I have never ever been grabbed without anyone asking if I needed help, and I have never felt put down by people when they ask. they have always been incredibly polite and respected what I wanted.
be grateful, Swiss... Canadians, while polite and well-meaning, are generally not very helpful...
independence from whom? Nobody's holding me hostage.
Fair enough, Leo... just was thinking independence in general.
it's actually a very clever pun.
Let me tell you, here in the states, you don't see the respect swiss is talking about.
Margorp, I think it depends on the folks you surround yourself with. At my school, on a single campus, I find examples of both people who treat me with great respect and those who act as though I am a child. The former are usually (not always) professors, and the latter are often administration, or Vogons, as I like to think of them.
For all the weird troubles I've had being a blind person dealing with bigotry or misunderstanding if one calls it that (though they wouldn't if the recipient were black or gay), I'd have to say this: I've been on here for a year now, my first blindie site, and man oh man all you have to do is look at the bigotry against the blind on here and shall we say, sighted people who happen to be bigots simply need not apply. They couldn't stand a candle's chance, it wouldn't even be sport or a fair fight.
Well it is all over of course. Admitedly, the older I get, the more respect I gain. Sure I see the few headcases around but that's life.
Swiss, I never ever even looked at it as a pun... WOW! I'm just too clever for my own good *grins*
Off to independently go curl up with a cup of tea, a book, and a cat.
Crazy Kate
I agree with this. I mean, people ask the stupidest questions in the most inapropriate places. Like one day, my younger sister invited a friend into my house. I was in junior year in high school, and my sister was twelve. So, I'm walking down the hallway in my own house, and up comes this middle schooler and says, "How exactly did you become blind." I hate this question! Especially since a sixth grader is not the kind of person who I would answer to. I mean, if an advanced scientist asked me because they were trying to find a cure, or something like that, I would answer. But a sixth grader! OK, I'll be quiet now.
I don't mind when people ask me how I became blind. If the person was genuinely interested, there's nothing wrong with answering it. You don't have to provide the details if something traumatic happened, or if it involves a lot of medical jargon or something that a kid wouldn't understand, but you don't have to act like it's something to be ashamed of either. Personally I'd rather have a young child come up and ask me those questions at an age where they're still open-minded enough to grasp and remember a concept like that and haven't been taught that being open-minded is wrong yet. Yes, in our society it's really tough to be who you are. So anyway, if they're allowed to ask their questions at a young age, maybe they'll take it with them into adulthood that blind people are just like anybody else. But if they're turned away or are too afraid to ask those questions, they'll probably grow up to be ignorant and treat us like we're 5, or worse yet, become bullies and target the blind or those with disabilities. It's always said that they target others whom they fear because they don't understand them. Well, blindness is definitely a foreign concept to most people, so I guess it's really no wonder so many blind people have had experiences of being bullied and used as punching bags at the hands of their sighted peers.
Why is it any more stupid for a sixth grader to ask that question than anyone else? Granted it was really none of their business, but I don't see how the question itself was stupid. In my opinion examples of stupid questions are those such as, "how do you eat," "How do you dress yourself," (not having to do with matching, but actually putting the clothes on) and, "How do you even get out of bed in the morning?" Those are some of the dumbest questions I have ever heard in my life.
I've had some of those too, just that a sixth grader isn't going to remember it for two minutes, and it won't help anyone. I also get kind of annoyed because everybody at my school wants to know that, and I get asked like once a week in the hallway when I'm trying to get to class on time. So I'm sorry if I over reacted, but we all have different experiences, right?
I agree it can be frustrating, but you never know how long someone will remember what you said. I do know what you mean about getting sick of the same old questions. It's nice when you have friends who ask you about things which are really meaningful in your life.
I still say I'd rather get those questions from a kid than an adult. Usually, by the time someone grows up, they're set in their ways and no matter what you tell them, if they've had a negative experience with a blind person before, or have a stubborn personality, they'll never change their minds or their misconceptions. The other thing is, I wish kids at my school when I went to public school had been straight up with me rather than take out their discomfort with my so-called "difference" by pelting me with erasers and stealing my books to fuck with my head while teachers looked on in equally uncomfortable silence. Perhaps if they had just asked what they wanted to know, they would have been nicer to me.
I am with screaming Turtle, though I had a pretty good experience in school. There were a few kids who decided to try and mess with my head (watch out! There's a wall there" when I only had an empty hallway in front)
When I was in grade 12, I had enough. I was walking with a friend to her class, and this guy was like, "Yeah watch out, there's a fight in front of you... hahahahaha." I totally ignored him, but when I was on my way back past him, he did it again: "Watch out! There's a fight in front of you."
I turned to him and said, "Look, buddy, if you have something constructive to say, I'm all for it, and I appreciate it. If you don't, siot back, shut up, and never talk to me again."
And off I walked down the hall.
People liked to play push the blind kid but one day I jammed my elbow into this kid's gut and he never did that again. My point is, stand up for yourself and it will get easier. Just like in high school when someone through a bottle at me. Well, I tripped him into a locker and told him I knew it was him.
When I was in middle school, I had to waid through a sea of backpacks some kids kept purposly tossing on the ground all around me every time I went out to catch the bus. At first I just kicked them aside, but after they became too numerous and this had been going on for days I began to just walk over them. The day after this some kid had the nerve to tell me I had crushed her glasses. If I remember correctly, I told her it was great that she got her glasses smashed for picking on a blind person.
yup, serves those assholes right. They don't want their stuff getting stepped on, don't leave it out. lol
I agree with ScreamingTurtle and Kate on here: When they're kids it's easier. My daughter's friends, for example, have a lot less problems with any of it because to her it's normal. Now the early adolescence pre-teen thing is a pain in the ass for everyone blind kid, blind parent no exception. And I realize you were still a teenager when this happened. But I'll tell you of another incident:
We were still living downtown and the girls (daughter and friends) were in junior high. I asked if they wanted to go to the arcade: we've got one that has everything from Asteroids to the new Dance Dance Revolution and stuff. They were squealy and excited, they were thirteen. One of them stopped, asked my daughter: "How are we gonna get there? You know. with your dad." I didn't make a big production at all, in fact I just let her answer. She just said, "Well, he can't drive, so we have to take the bus." As far as they knew, I hadn't heard any of it. I just walked in, said "All right squeal baits, 'nuff mirror time, lez go." And they were as chattery as some of you all get in public quicknotes.
All that to say I think if you don't make anything of it, you're better off. If you don't want to answer their question, don't: like some have said,it's not really their business.
But I think some people overreact on both sides. I know parents who were shocked I never sat down and explained anything to her, but just let her imagine I could see the book she had when she was two, or that I didn't correct her when she said ... "But, daddys don't drive!" I think especially with kids, les is more.
Now I admit, it's hard being a kid, and I'm with Margorp: if they're your age push back, giv the swirly or whatever it is acceptable to do now.
Just my thoughts.
Indeed, don't be a bulley just stand up to the hogwash, step back, and observe the learning process.